86 min read

How Culture Affects Health With Paul Dermody

Join Paul Dermody as he shares why he made Spain home, how travel shapes identity, the hidden challenges of life on the move, and the cultural influences on health, diet, and fitness. Insights on mindset, culture-bound eating disorders, and personal training included.

Audio

Nolan speaks with Paul Dermody, an online personal trainer, podcaster, and part-time professional writer passionate about travel and languages. Paul shares his tips on achieving your fitness and health goals with a holistic approach that can apply to all aspects of life. You can check out the specific topics below and select which segment of the podcast you want to listen to.


Video

00:00 - Intro
01:56 - Why Paul Dermody chose to make Spain home. 
05:30 - How travel affects your identity 
11:51 - The problem with travel (and life) no one talks about 
16:45 - Benefits of travel
20:19 - How culture affects health, diets, and fitness
24:38 - How to change your mindset for better health
33:19 - Culture-bound eating disorders
40:49 - Diet culture & woke culture 
51:25 - Paul’s personal training


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Transcript

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[Nolan] Inescapably, inescapably, inescapably.</v>

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[Nolan] Inescapably, foreign. Welcome to Without Borders. I'm your host, Nolan Yuma.</v>

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If this is your first time tuning into the show, you know that this, um,

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if this is your first time tuning into the show, you don't know [Laughter]  uh,

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but this is the podcast for nomad, expats, immigrants,

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third culture kids, or anyone else that feels inescapably foreign. Today,

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I'm here with Paul, uh, Dermody, an online personal trainer,

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podcaster,

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and part-time professional writer who's also passionate about travel and

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languages. In other words, I think we have a lot in common,

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and I'm looking forward to exploring how culture influences fitness and

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nutrition. Um, I have a bunch of studies to bring up,

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but first I want to know a bit about your travel, um,

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and how it's influenced your work, your experiences, and well, Paul,

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where are you right now?

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[Paul] Thanks, man. So first, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. It's strange,</v>

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it's interesting hearing how you're introduced in a podcast. Uh,

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part-time professional writer is cool. I mean,

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one part of me thinks that is so cool.

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And then the other part of me saying I've met a couple of hundred books over

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about a year, it's nothing to go too crazy about, but, uh,

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thank you for the kind word I have to say. But.

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[Nolan] You're, and even though maybe money-wise, only a couple hundred bucks,</v>

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but you're successful, you have a lot of a,

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a lot of comments and a lot of engagements with your writing, I've noticed.

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[Paul] I, I've don't,</v>

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I've broken onto medium and I've managed to qualify for the paid articles from,

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I think you've, to get a hundred followers.

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It's one of those things where I think every creator says this.

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I joined the platform form a little bit later than I would've liked in terms of

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kind of getting the, the spoils. But no, I, I love it, dude.

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I don't do it for the cash. I mean,

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I would love to be full-time professional writer at some point in the future,

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but I don't do it for the cash. I wouldn't sustain it if I did it for the cash,

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I wouldn't be able to, I think you have to have a deeper motivation.

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But do your question. Currently I'm back in Malaga.

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My travel story is a little bit long-winded.

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So the long story short is I left home in 2018,

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uh, to go to Barcelona. I was only originally going for three months,

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and I actually haven't been on to live since. I found, interestingly,

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client sent me an article asking me if I would read it around the winter of

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2018, and it was about seasonal effective disorder.

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And I had never heard about that,

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but I noticed that every winter I was getting progressively more anxious than

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sad. And on my last winter in Ireland,

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some days I would just be lying in my bed and I just couldn't drag myself out of

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bed. And I've never had any mental health problems.

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I've never really had any mental health issues of any sort. And I thought,

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this is getting strange, like I'm getting sadder and sadder.

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And then my client sent me the,

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her article she wrote on Seasonal Effective Disorder.

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And it was like she had written to me about me,

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and I went to my girlfriend that day and I said, look,

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are you up for leaving Ireland? Do you wanna go travel?

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And she was a bit apprehensive at first,

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and so we decided to go away for the summer to Barcelona.

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So we spent the whole summer of 2018 in Barcelona together.

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And then she said to me, she goes, you're such a better person here.

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You should stay. I'm gonna go back to Ireland and teach.

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So I stayed for a couple of extra months,

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but we decided not to do long distance.

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And I suggested she moved to Barcelona with me full-time,

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but she didn't want to. She felt it was a bit too much of a culture shock,

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which is going to blow your mind, because then she came back and said,

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let's move to Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam. So I'm [Laughter] 

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I'm thinking Vietnam really that much more familiar than Barcelona.

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But she had a few friends, private school teachers, she had a job lined up.

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So we went from Barcelona to Vietnam, spent two years in Vietnam.

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We went back to Malaga for one year when my visa expired in Vietnam,

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then back to Vietnam. Uh, spent a few months in Vietnam,

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lived in Malaysia for a couple of months, and now we're back in Spain.

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[Nolan] Nice. We actually have a, kind of of a similar story there, because I, well, I,</v>

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I didn't really live in Vietnam, I say four months.

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I don't know if you can consider that, that living, but I was in, uh, Hanoi.

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Did you spend time there as well, or just in, uh, Ho Chi Min City?

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[Paul] I spent, I took a trip to Hanoi. I Okay. Lived in, in per two and a half years.</v>

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But I can, I kind of always say I lived in Malaysia, but if,

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if your thing doesn't count, then mine doesn't count.

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I think we were a few months in Kuali Lumpur, so I didn't really live there.

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I just spent a few months in Qual Lumpur.

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[Nolan] Yeah, I think, I think four months are kind of on the borderline, right? Uh,</v>

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you're still in this phase of aculturalization where everything's really

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exciting and I don't think you kind of reach the,

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the dips and you don't really get into all the more,

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the negative sides of immigrating somewhere. Right. Um, so, well,

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what I found really interesting too is that you,

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you were in Barcelona and now you're near Malaga.

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What made you choose to go to Malaga instead of go back to Barcelona or

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pick somewhere else in Spain?

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[Paul] Barcelona was amazing experience,</v>

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but I just guess I had no desire to go back when I left.

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I always wanted to live there, and I just,

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it felt like that time was o was over the chapter of my life had done.

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I like the climate in Malaga. I like the nature of the people in the south.

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I think the lifestyle is really nice. It's quite relaxed. It's sunny year round.

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And, um, yeah, I think that honestly, I,

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I don't think there's anything to it other than I just googled a couple of nice

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places and I decided to take a few trips around Spain and just,

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I'm sure you felt this Nolan, but when you,

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when you land in the faith and you instantly feel, yeah, this could be home,

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this could be home.

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[Nolan] Yeah. Yeah. I, I've, I've felt that in a way in Spain as well.</v>

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Um, but I've, I mean, I'm a third culture kid,

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so I've never really had a place where I say this is home. Right. But, um,

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the longer I live here, the longer I'm starting,

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the more I'm starting to adapt to the culture. And, uh,

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maybe it'll end up being a long-term home, but I really don't know.

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I think I'm like you as well. I,

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I like to travel and have new experiences all the time. Um.

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[Paul] No, uh, but.</v>

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[Nolan] Uh, yeah.</v>

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[Paul] I've heard you say third culture quite a few times. Do you mind,</v>

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maybe it's just me and I have not heard that phrase before. You,

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will you elaborate a little bit on that one?

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[Nolan] Sure. So I've, I've brought it up on the show before,</v>

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but just for the listeners that don't know and for you, uh,

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a third culture kid is someone that was raised in more than two

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cultures, forget what age before a certain age with, uh,

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so during childhood. Um,

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so they've never really had the time to just adapt to one culture, right?

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So they're, um, and what, what these,

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what they've noticed is that often third culture kids,

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the pros are that they adapt easily. They're kind of like chameleons. Um,

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they're able, and usually more open-minded and things like that.

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But then the negative side is you don't really have much of a stable identity.

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You might have some identity issues, obviously, um,

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your values might clash with the culture that you're in. And, uh, yeah,

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pretty much all the symptoms, or not symptoms, but characteristics that they,

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they write down for third culture kids. Kids are just spot on. Um,

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at least from for my life.

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[Paul] Um, I was just interested, I heard you spoke what our mutual friends desire,</v>

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so I just wanted to actually get a very,

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just to make sure that I'm following along well.

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[Nolan] Yeah, well, I thought it was interesting with Cesar as well,</v>

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because how he describes his personality almost sounds like a third culture kid.

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But that was just from growing up in a different, or not growing up, but uh,

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living in a different country as an adult throughout your twenties.

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And I think there's just not that much research done on that yet. But I think,

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um, growing up somewhere in your twenties definitely has,

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plays a huge role on your identity. Has it for you, uh,

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living in Spain, do you feel like your personality has kind of shifted?

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You said you're a better person in Spain. Um, what about anything else?

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Have your values kind of changed or you're just happier and more pleasant or?

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[Paul] I grew up in Ireland. I left Ireland at 28, so I,</v>

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I'm as Irish as ham and bacon and cabbage without turning into one

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physically. Right. And I,

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I never felt particularly Irish. I have to take,

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and I think now is ironically,

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after living abroad for five years across say three different countries and or

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many cities now is the most Irish I've felt because something I've learned since

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I've been away is I really like how the Irish represent abroad.

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The groups of Irish people that I've met are usually open-minded.

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We're very progressive and will usually listen to an opinion even when it

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clashes with something we currently believe. At least that's been my experience.

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I never really felt that Irish when I lived back at home. I,

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I felt somewhat disconnected from my own culture and I suppose

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even something small, but people walking in and complaining, saying, you know,

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it's a, it's a wet all day. It's a rotten all day. It's a dirty all day.

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Like I'm from the west of Ireland, it rains about three, 300 days a year, right?

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So it's a wet, rotten, dirty all day, 300 days a year. And I,

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I had this profound realization around 24,

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I can't live under a gray sky and a raining on top of me all my life.

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This is not a life for me. And it didn't, I thought it was strange because I,

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I seem to be the only person that it bothered.

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And it really bothered me to the point where it's not just, oh,

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I don't like the rain. It's like my mood.

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You just chop 50% of my happiness away under a gray sky.

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Like even I spent a month at home this year between moving away from Vietnam

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and moving here to Spain and all the, the things that my brain cues for,

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like going for a walk, go to do some chin-ups, go to do some push-ups, it's,

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it's almost like it stopped queuing for those. And I had to really flex,

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say more discipline and willpower to the point where I skipped about four

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workouts a week when I was back home every, every week for about three weeks.

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Cuz my, my shoulders would creak and I felt sore and I felt stiff.

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And I mean friends, my Spanish teacher from Colombia, my,

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my one of my best mates in Vietnam from England, uh, they've both said to me,

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when you used to talk about the weather, I thought you were such a drama queen.

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But I'm, after going back home with the winter and I get it now, oh yeah.

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So I'm a better person,

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more so in the sunshine and sunny weather just because I'm happier. But yeah,

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in terms of Irish culture, the most Irish I've ever felt.

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But I had to leave home for a prolonged period to get that,

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if that makes any sense.

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[Nolan] Yeah. What,</v>

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what about the parts of you that are Irish that have made it difficult to adapt

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in Spain?

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Or maybe there's just a lot of correlations and it's just been easier to adapt

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in Spain as an Irishman?

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[Paul] What, it's been easy. It's been so easy.</v>

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I think having a few words of the language has really helped.

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I think being generally quite curious and open-minded has helped.

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Um, none of my transitions have been difficult. None of them. I,

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people I know people say, you know, the,

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the first night away from home or the first week I wanted to go home,

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turn the plane around. I've never had that experience in any of my travels.

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I have landed in Kuala Lumpur, ho Chi, min City,

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Malaga, Barcelona with this sense of cool, like, the world is so huge,

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I can't wait for this. My first night in Ho Chi Min, I had this feeling of,

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holy crap, where am I? But it was, it was amazing.

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It was exactly what I needed at 29 years of age.

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And Ho Chi Minh was the best two years of my life. It turned out it was,

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it went so much better than I expected. I remember my girlfriend said to me,

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babe, I I hope you really adapt. And I remember thinking, I'm fine.

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Worry about yourself. I'm good. I'm gonna have a great one. Oh, she should have.

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It was actually legal Ho Chi Min and coming back to Spain, the,

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the second time, I found that a particularly difficult transition,

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but that wasn't because I don't love Spain.

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It was because I wasn't actually ready to leave Ho Chi Min.

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It was just visa complications. So, I mean,

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I've gone on a bit of a tangent there,

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but I've never struggled to adapt Nolan in any of my travels.

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I have loved every moment of the.

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[Nolan] I I feel you man. I'm, I'm the same way. Um, but no, just a,</v>

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just to tie this into one of your articles, uh,

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the problem with travel no one talks about. Yeah. And um,

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like I was going through it and if I were to sum up the article in one line,

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I think it's a little bit difficult cause you, you cover so much. Uh,

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but the one line, uh, I'll look for it one second.

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Our mental images of travel are hugely edited constructs of the mind

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duping us constantly with the same mechanism that makes us curious if

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happiness lies elsewhere with another partner, place or in another

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scenario. Um, can you expand on that a bit?

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Because I always love talking about the positive aspects and we will talk more

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about the positive aspects of travel,

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but I think that's one thing that you highlight that is kind of a problem and

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something that could be negative, um, in, in travel.

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[Paul] Do you know, it's kind of a metaphor for life really. I've, um,</v>

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I've probably fallen guilty even there talking to you to something I believe,

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which is the trap of nostalgia,

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which is taking Paul from the past and heavily editing them with the ro

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tinted goggles. You know, I was happier when,

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because I can't extrapolate my own insecurities from the past and bring them

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into this moment. And that's the same ones that I feel now.

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I think with travel as it is with romance and love as it is with

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anything,

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it's easier to envision that there's a better moment anywhere

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else in some other place, just not here and just not now.

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I think it is a common mechanism of the mind that traps us. I see it,

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if I can relate it back to my career, I see it a little bit with clients who,

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some people might be like dieting for fat loss or dieting for weight loss and

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they, they,

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they envision how happy they'll be as soon as they go out and have that burger

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and fried that they decided to forego.

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But then they're eating the burger and the fried and they're no sooner doing

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that. Then they want to be back on routine instruction, feeling good.

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And I think there's a real tendency of the mind to

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constantly look over the shoulders of here and now and into the future.

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And I think that's very normal. I don't think you can ever resist that. Um,

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I think the mind tends to edit things, though. It's like,

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I love the sun more than I love anything in the world.

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I'll be the first to tell you that sunscreen spills into my eye.

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I get sand all over my socks and my girlfriend gets irritated with me because I

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walked through the tile floor with grains of sand follow following me from the

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beach. Like, it's not some utopian dream,

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but it's my idea of a relatively happy light. Um, so yeah,

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and even even things like, you know, there's an idea from Alanda Batan,

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I dunno if you're familiar with his work,

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but he's been a huge influence for me where he talks about how

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once you have a crush on somebody,

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you should really enjoy that moment because the only thing separating you from

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that and then the reality that they're not as perfect as you think is time and

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getting to know them. [Laughter] .

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[Nolan] Yeah. A lot of dream to that one.</v>

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Don't think there's one person listening to that right now, be like, no,

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[Laughter] .

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[Paul] Ultimately when I talk about travel and the problem with travel,</v>

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it's the idea that, you know,

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in your suitcase you put in your shorts and your t-shirts and your sunscreen and

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your shampoo,

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but you are bringing your anxieties and your insecurities and your shortcomings

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and your, your mental wellbeing.

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And sitting on a beach in Malaga doesn't make me happier.

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If I'm not a happy person back home, I'm, yes,

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I get the sun does change my mood. Of course it does. I I get that. And that's,

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that's the point I'm trying to illustrate.

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It's a very consciously created value that I have, which is good weather.

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But aside from that,

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I'm not just going to be more confident in myself or I'm not going to just

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happen to love myself just because I've changed from point A to point B.

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And I do think you,

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you risk disappointing yourself when you place happiness elsewhere.

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Just not here and not now.

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Only to get to that destination and realize that your mind has constantly been

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fooling you into I'll be happy when I'll be happy in the future.

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I'll be happy in this location.

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[Nolan] Definitely. Now, Paul,</v>

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everything you just mentioned right now is something I want to get a little bit

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into later on because you're, as you mentioned, right,

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is kind of a metaphor for life and the way that you're talking about travel is

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also the way that you talk about fitness, um, nutrition,

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love as you're mentioning right now and just life in general. Uh,

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but before we get into all that,

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and also I have some studies I want to ask you about. Um,

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I'm just curious a little bit more about the travel side of things because on a

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previous episode, uh, Why we travel with Dr.

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Matthew Niblett and Chris Beret, uh, they wrote a book, why Travel?

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And, um,

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they're Britain's foremost independent transport and land use thing tank,

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and they work with various researchers. So you got like the sociological, uh,

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physiological, economical, spiritual,

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and all these different perspectives in this textbook about why travel. Uh,

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I think you'd enjoy it in a lot of the listeners. But, um, one study,

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and I'm just curious if,

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if you've experienced it with your writing or any of your other creative

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pursuits,

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but researchers found that participants asked to solve a problem.

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They are told originates from a far away place,

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give more creative solutions to the problem, um,

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than those participants who believe the problem is local in origin.

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And I was just wondering if you've ever utilized this like subc,

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like without even knowing it,

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maybe you were writing about something and at the time you were just thinking

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about a far away place and it had, it had an effect on your creativity.

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[Paul] And it's such a good question and I'm not even sure I fully understand it. So.</v>

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[Nolan] Imagine you, you are like, you're, you're,</v>

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you're preparing for one of your articles, right?

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Which they're often about fitness and nutrition,

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but they're also about psychology and life in general and love. Um,

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have you noticed that maybe you're sitting in Ireland or now you're sitting in

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Spain and before you write the article,

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you are imagining these situations in a country you haven't been

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to or maybe a country you've been to once and it just is far away from the

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environment you're in right now. Ha.

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Have have you noticed it ever plays a role in your writing or,

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or any of your other creative works?

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[Paul] I don't know if this is cheating, but Vietnam,</v>

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my favorite counter in the world has the lowest rate of obesity in the world.

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And when clients are starting with me and they have weight management goals,

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sometimes they will pay something that instantly, I don't know why I go there,

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but it clashes with a lot of the cultural eating values in Vietnam that I've

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experienced.

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So I might be writing an article on something like weight management and there's

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a, I like to think there's a philosophical undertone because I don't think

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philosophy, big words and complicated things in grumpy old men.

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I think philosophy is quite simply how you live your life.

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And I think everyone's a philosopher at heart, whether you realize it or not.

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Just like I think everybody has kind of personal values at heart. It's just,

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have you taken time to create your own?

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So sometimes I'll be writing about fat loss and I always come back to the idea

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that what I've seen in Vietnam and Ho Chi Min city specifically

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is so different to what I see in the, in the west say, you know,

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people tend to not obsess over every individual food or every individual

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ingredient in Ho Chi Min. They tend to eat in three or four times a day.

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It tends to be quite structured and regimented.

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They seem to have a genuine appreciation and just a, a real

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happy outlook say compared to those of us who take it for granted because let's,

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let's be real, if you're not enjoying your food right now,

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you are taking that for granted. Because if we were taken away from you,

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that's when you would really see the, the value in something.

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Sometimes you need to lose something or to put yourself in the position of

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losing it or to see it done. Another way to appreciate it, you know,

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I think acquaintance with struggle is one of the stranger prerequisites for any

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kind of gratitude. And, And and,

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and it's not even struggle that I've seen in Ho Chi Minh,

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although I have seen it in parts of Asia. But yes to, to your question,

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and sometimes I struggle to be succinct in my point making,

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which I am trying to work on, I will often go back to my experiences in Vietnam,

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especially with my Vietnamese friends and the way they eat and live and do

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fitness and just do life in general.

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It is markedly different than my more say Western or more, more Irish friends.

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100%. Same with Spain. Spain have a very rich food culture too.

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I don't know what their obesity rate is like,

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but I do know the Mediterranean diet is quite high in the list of

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recommendations.

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So I've seen the lowest obesity rate in the world and the Mediterranean diet

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firsthand for the last five years. And not one, the the common thing Nolan, the,

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the common thing.

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I have never heard one of my Spanish or Vietnamese friends demonize or single

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out one specific food on the plate that's, I can't touch that.

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That's off my plan. Yeah.

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And I've never heard one of my Vietnamese or my Spanish friends.

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[Nolan] We had a bit of an internet issue there,</v>

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so I'm not quite sure where this is leaving off. Uh,

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but Paul was talking a lot about, um,

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the attitude towards food and how that affects obesity more

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than just what you're eating.

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And I was gonna bring this up later on the show,

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but since you're already talking about it, um,

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are you familiar with the French paradox? Have you heard this term before?

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[Paul] I, without having heard it, I would've a theory that I know where it can go,</v>

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I'm assuming with the French?

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[Nolan] No, I'll I'll go over it. I'll go over it. Um, but you'll,</v>

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you'll know exactly what I'm talking about because you,

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you actually already talked about it a couple seconds ago. Um, but it's,

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despite the greater prevalence of fat and much of the French cuisine,

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the French have a longer lifespan,

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are thinner and have lower heart disease rates than Americans.

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Right?

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And the researchers started looking into this and, uh,

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two researchers Renauld and de Lord from— 

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uh, 1992 was the study. And they thought it,

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they said it was because of the wine,

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because the wine I inhibits plum uh,

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platelet reactivity. Um,

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and that could reduce the risk of coronary heart disease. But that,

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that theory is a little bit iffy. I mean especially since 1992,

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we've done a lot more research into alcohol and I think especially our

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generation, we know just how bad alcohol can be. Uh,

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but then some other researchers started looking at it and it was more about the

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portion size and that's, um,

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seven that the portions in America are 70 to 80% bigger.

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But then they also looked at,

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and I think this is the main one and and you've already, uh, hinted towards it,

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is that the French view cooking as a leisure activity and they don't,

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as you said, um,

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when you're talking about Mediterranean cultures demonize the food, right.

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And I think, I think that's has,

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I think that's the most important thing for people to think about is just love

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what you're eating and um, I forget which article it is of yours,

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but you lay out all these questions you should be asking yourself while you're

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eating. Or just like some of the descriptors,

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I was fortunate enough just to be raised that way. Like my parents,

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while we're eating, we would always be talking about the smells, the tastes,

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the memories it's bringing up and everything like that.

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And thought about alcohol being bad. Sometimes we do that with a good scotch,

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right? You smell the scotch, you think about the notes, how it makes you feel,

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and that also ties into the French with their wine and everything. Um,

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so yeah.

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Do you wanna expand a little bit more about that and how you help clients who

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might not have this mindset, like, I'm lucky enough just to be,

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just to be raised with it, but how do you help your clients who,

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who need to adapt this type of mindset?

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[Paul] Two things stood out for me there about you is the joy,</v>

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the actual joy on your face when you spoke about your own diet is very,

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um, it was lovely to see, I have to say,

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as someone who speaks to a lot of people that have maybe lost the joy in food,

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it's lovely to see when someone genuinely has that. And your,

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your self-awareness in terms of recognizing the role of your upbringing is key

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as well because I, I think that tends to get downplayed a lot.

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I'm sure you're very aware as someone with your typical introspection that our

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behavior as adults sits on the shoulders of how we were raised as kids.

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And I, I see people who have had the joy ripped away from food, uh,

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from a a young age. Look,

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I suppose the biggest thing that I try and do as a trainer and as any kind of

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guide or mentor that I might beat to anybody is to distinguish

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between really healthy nutrition guidelines,

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really harmful food rules, and then maybe personal abilities or personal skills.

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So for example, I think it's a terrible thing to have a food rule.

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You're not a machine so that I can't tell you not to eat food X not to eat after

440

00:24:44.090 --> 00:24:47.570

y o'clock or to eat precisely this quantity of such a thing.

441

00:24:48.010 --> 00:24:51.490

I think it's kind kind of like telling you to use the toilet at this hour and

442

00:24:51.490 --> 00:24:54.650

only get sexually turned on by this activity. I don't think it helps.

443

00:24:55.960 --> 00:24:58.480

I think guidelines are fantastic cuz they create routine.

444

00:24:58.540 --> 00:25:02.240

If you're gonna enjoy a flexible dietary pattern, you have to have boundaries.

445

00:25:02.580 --> 00:25:06.200

You can't be flexible unless you have something in order to adhere to.

446

00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:10.280

If you are just eating quote on quote junk foods, and I don't love the term,

447

00:25:10.300 --> 00:25:13.760

but roll with me here. If you're eating low, low nutrient food all day,

448

00:25:13.980 --> 00:25:16.520

that's not really flexible because you're not adhering to anything.

449

00:25:16.580 --> 00:25:17.320

To be flexible,

450

00:25:17.320 --> 00:25:21.560

you need to have an feel to say no and the skill to say yes appropriately.

451

00:25:22.460 --> 00:25:25.860

And with guidelines you might say, you know, create a routine,

452

00:25:26.280 --> 00:25:30.020

eat every so many hours, um, really figure this out for yourself.

453

00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:32.540

And then skills are more personal aspects.

454

00:25:32.840 --> 00:25:35.060

Do I really need this mindless snack right now?

455

00:25:35.560 --> 00:25:39.180

If I'm gonna have a delicious scotch, do I really need the third,

456

00:25:40.040 --> 00:25:42.860

the third getting into hangover territory? Could I stop at two?

457

00:25:42.860 --> 00:25:45.060

Could I have the joy in two? Could I leave it at two?

458

00:25:45.190 --> 00:25:47.380

Could I be happy that I'm saying no? It,

459

00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:52.930

and and it's like you're just touching base with yourself

460

00:25:53.070 --> 00:25:56.890

skills. Like, like I said, right? There's being taught about safe sex,

461

00:25:57.190 --> 00:26:02.120

but then there's knowing what and when turns you on and who and with

462

00:26:02.120 --> 00:26:04.720

what and what the boundaries of that relationship. To some people,

463

00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:07.200

monogamy is the norm. And to others,

464

00:26:07.670 --> 00:26:10.400

like to some people a third party would be the ultimate portrayal.

465

00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:12.480

And to others is the casual evening when they open up.

466

00:26:12.940 --> 00:26:16.120

And I'm saying that as somebody who is in a very healthy, committed,

467

00:26:16.120 --> 00:26:17.120

monogamous relationship,

468

00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:20.960

I would not like anybody else's ideals inflicted onto me.

469

00:26:21.260 --> 00:26:23.800

So I have no interest in inflicting my ideals onto someone else.

470

00:26:24.080 --> 00:26:26.640

I think values are vital and,

471

00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:28.720

and that I think it's values that ties it back together.

472

00:26:29.330 --> 00:26:30.840

Nolan comes to me today and says, Paul,

473

00:26:30.860 --> 00:26:35.120

I'm gonna have a slice of cake and a scotch and I'll say, why? And you'll say,

474

00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:38.780

I couldn't be bothered cooking and I'm not so sure I'll,

475

00:26:38.780 --> 00:26:39.980

I'll tell you it's the best option.

476

00:26:40.200 --> 00:26:43.280

But if you say it's my birthday today and I want cake and scotch, I'm like,

477

00:26:43.280 --> 00:26:43.920

knock yourself out.

478

00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:48.770

That sound that sounds amazing and values is knowing that you will

479

00:26:49.010 --> 00:26:51.330

probably have goals that kind of conflict with each other. Like,

480

00:26:51.330 --> 00:26:54.410

I love being healthy and I love getting stronger at chin ups and I love beer.

481

00:26:54.600 --> 00:26:57.770

They immediately conflict with each other unless I dig deeper and think, okay,

482

00:26:57.770 --> 00:26:59.090

well I'm gonna need to negotiate here,

483

00:26:59.350 --> 00:27:01.650

but I can eat 20 beers a night and get better at chin ups.

484

00:27:01.670 --> 00:27:04.130

But I [inaudible] three and I twice a week.

485

00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:07.450

Like I think you always have to put yourself in a wise way,

486

00:27:07.590 --> 00:27:08.890

but nobody can do that for me.

487

00:27:09.310 --> 00:27:13.240

And when I'm trying to bring clients to a better understanding of themselves,

488

00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:17.030

ultimately I'm trying to remind them you're going to come face to face with a

489

00:27:17.030 --> 00:27:20.910

really ugly part of the process that has to make you be a philosophically

490

00:27:20.910 --> 00:27:21.690

different person.

491

00:27:21.690 --> 00:27:24.030

You're gonna be tempted to quiz and go straight back to the old pattern.

492

00:27:24.570 --> 00:27:27.230

That's the moment I need you to tap into that value system,

493

00:27:27.230 --> 00:27:28.670

that wisdom that you're trying to cultivate.

494

00:27:28.830 --> 00:27:30.830

I can't tell you what to do in that situation. And I,

495

00:27:31.030 --> 00:27:34.430

I would argue you find yourself in that situation cuz you've constantly

496

00:27:34.430 --> 00:27:37.510

outsourced the what should I eat, when should I do it to somebody else?

497

00:27:37.610 --> 00:27:40.910

And I think it's a subliminal out of doing the, the,

498

00:27:41.050 --> 00:27:45.720

the value work needed to create a good relationship to food. And I mean,

499

00:27:46.020 --> 00:27:48.760

no, I could talk about this all day long and barely scratch the surface,

500

00:27:48.860 --> 00:27:51.600

but that covering a little bit of the labor of what I think feather of the

501

00:27:51.600 --> 00:27:52.433

trainers day.

502

00:27:53.040 --> 00:27:54.770

[Nolan] Perfect. And yeah, a as you said, you,</v>

503

00:27:54.770 --> 00:27:58.330

you can only scratch the surface right now and it's something that is an ongoing

504

00:27:58.330 --> 00:28:00.650

battle. And I think that's the mistake.

505

00:28:00.650 --> 00:28:04.610

Well I used to work as a personal trainer as well, um, and like you,

506

00:28:04.630 --> 00:28:07.090

I'm just very into fitness and nutrition,

507

00:28:07.350 --> 00:28:11.130

but I've never been someone that's followed all the fads and the trends.

508

00:28:11.650 --> 00:28:14.930

I always like to look at the rules and look at all the new things that are

509

00:28:14.930 --> 00:28:19.370

coming out just to kind of like learn from it and pick and choose. Um,

510

00:28:19.430 --> 00:28:21.290

but I think a lot of personal trainers,

511

00:28:21.290 --> 00:28:25.570

they make the mistake because it's easier to just give the rules, right?

512

00:28:25.600 --> 00:28:28.610

Like this is what you're supposed to do. Try this, try this trend.

513

00:28:29.080 --> 00:28:32.770

It's so much harder as a personal trainer to do what you are doing.

514

00:28:32.870 --> 00:28:34.610

And that's actually like changing the mindset,

515

00:28:34.990 --> 00:28:38.750

but it's also going to have such a better result on the,

516

00:28:38.770 --> 00:28:42.710

on the people and such more long, long-term results. But as you say, it takes,

517

00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:45.550

takes a lot more work as well. Uh.

518

00:28:45.700 --> 00:28:50.350

[Paul] Well Nolan, the why, why are you beaming with joy when you talk about food? Why,</v>

519

00:28:50.450 --> 00:28:53.390

why are you not sitting anxiously now worried about those things?

520

00:28:53.390 --> 00:28:54.223

You can't have?

521

00:28:54.580 --> 00:28:58.430

It's because you clearly don't have a dichotomy that you can't have the thing,

522

00:28:58.690 --> 00:29:01.510

the thing isn't on your mind cuz you're not thinking about the thing.

523

00:29:01.810 --> 00:29:04.950

So as soon as I tell you you can't have the thing, it becomes a thing.

524

00:29:05.410 --> 00:29:07.550

And if I say think, yeah, not my

525

00:29:08.870 --> 00:29:11.150

[Nolan] I, I, so I've never had it with food.</v>

526

00:29:11.150 --> 00:29:14.710

I've always had a really healthy relationship with food. Fitness, Um,

527

00:29:15.330 --> 00:29:20.030

I'm addicted. Like I can't go three days without uh,

528

00:29:20.030 --> 00:29:24.390

working out. If I'm not a little bit sore, I just feel awful. Uh, [Laughter] 

529

00:29:24.390 --> 00:29:27.030

that's more of an addiction there. But alcohol,

530

00:29:27.030 --> 00:29:29.630

that's one where I've noticed that kind of mindset.

531

00:29:29.890 --> 00:29:34.510

And I know that with alcohol, genes can play a role as well. But for me,

532

00:29:34.810 --> 00:29:37.430

um, when I lived in Canada and uh,

533

00:29:37.450 --> 00:29:42.080

one of my partners was someone who didn't like when I got wasted and the more

534

00:29:42.230 --> 00:29:45.880

like mentioned like, don't drink more than three beers, don't do more than this.

535

00:29:46.020 --> 00:29:50.680

Be careful with this, you act like this. The more I would try to drink less,

536

00:29:51.100 --> 00:29:54.320

but then when the opportunity would come, I would just lose control.

537

00:29:54.390 --> 00:29:58.680

Like after four drinks, it's like, okay, uh, [Laughter]  let,

538

00:29:58.690 --> 00:30:00.120

let's just keep this going.

539

00:30:01.180 --> 00:30:04.920

And it's always been something like I've kind of had to, to keep an eye on.

540

00:30:04.990 --> 00:30:09.000

Luckily with my fitness addiction, I, I couldn't get hungover very often,

541

00:30:09.060 --> 00:30:12.400

so it would only be like, you know, maybe twice a month or something like that.

542

00:30:12.940 --> 00:30:17.840

But I've noticed that I've got rid of this in Spain and I don't know

543

00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:22.560

if it's like what you talked about earlier with the sun or if it's just a

544

00:30:22.560 --> 00:30:23.260

culture here,

545

00:30:23.260 --> 00:30:28.200

people don't get wasted like they do in Ireland or in Canada or in

546

00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:32.400

England, right? People drink at 9:00 AM here sometimes [Laughter] .

547

00:30:33.100 --> 00:30:37.720

Um, but they're not getting wasted. And it's, it's again, with that mindset.

548

00:30:37.900 --> 00:30:42.560

And I think I've adapted to that now because now even if I have three beers,

549

00:30:43.100 --> 00:30:45.880

I'm not all of a sudden like, oh, I want to drink more. I'm like, I,

550

00:30:46.280 --> 00:30:48.880

I feel way more in tune with my body.

551

00:30:49.340 --> 00:30:52.200

And that wasn't like a conscious thing. It was really,

552

00:30:52.600 --> 00:30:53.840

I think just from moving here.

553

00:30:55.110 --> 00:30:58.870

[Paul] I, it's so funny, me and my girlfriend talk about the same thing the whole time.</v>

554

00:30:58.970 --> 00:31:01.190

We could go out with friends here and we often do,

555

00:31:01.410 --> 00:31:05.630

and you might have four or five cañas of those little beers throughout a

556

00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:10.060

six hour evening, say three hours for dinner and a couple of drinks after.

557

00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:12.940

And it would be the equivalent of having say, two pints back home.

558

00:31:13.320 --> 00:31:17.210

But I'd have two pints in the first half an hour back home, just the culture.

559

00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:21.130

It's just how we drink. It's just the norm. So yeah, I,

560

00:31:21.210 --> 00:31:24.210

I have found my relationship with alcohol has changed drastically. Like,

561

00:31:24.210 --> 00:31:25.290

I drank heavy when I was younger.

562

00:31:25.650 --> 00:31:28.730

I quit entirely in my mid twenties when I became a trainer and I wanted to build

563

00:31:28.730 --> 00:31:30.810

up a business. But since I've moved to Spain,

564

00:31:31.010 --> 00:31:33.970

I I have a very good relationship with alcohol. I,

565

00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:38.170

it's another thing I suppose that I don't resonate with, with the Irish culture.

566

00:31:38.330 --> 00:31:41.130

I find a lot of people are kind of on the beer or off the beer.

567

00:31:41.550 --> 00:31:42.930

You know where I'm off now? Yeah.

568

00:31:42.930 --> 00:31:43.050

[Nolan] Well,</v>

569

00:31:43.050 --> 00:31:46.210

it's a little bit freaky how much we have in common because it was same routine

570

00:31:46.210 --> 00:31:47.330

with me, like early twenties,

571

00:31:47.330 --> 00:31:52.050

like had a couple party years and then mid twenties actually took like an entire

572

00:31:52.050 --> 00:31:53.970

year off of drinking. Uh,

573

00:31:54.070 --> 00:31:57.130

and then now have more of like a healthy relationship with it here in Spain.

574

00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:58.033

It's crazy.

575

00:31:58.410 --> 00:32:00.850

[Paul] I I think we have, we have a very similar trajectory.</v>

576

00:32:01.490 --> 00:32:05.470

I think when you leave your home, when you see other cultures,

577

00:32:05.470 --> 00:32:08.270

when you see other people, it does expand.

578

00:32:08.270 --> 00:32:09.910

It's the most cliche thing in the world. It,

579

00:32:09.910 --> 00:32:12.910

it expands you in just ways that you didn't think were possible.

580

00:32:12.930 --> 00:32:16.070

You can't know what lessons you're gonna take on the journey. Um,

581

00:32:16.090 --> 00:32:19.550

if you'd have told me that this would be my relationship to alcohol and to food

582

00:32:19.550 --> 00:32:22.870

and to my body, even say five, six years ago, I would've never believed you.

583

00:32:23.370 --> 00:32:26.110

But there's something in the water down here in Nal Lucia. It,

584

00:32:26.130 --> 00:32:29.510

it just gives me a better relationship to all the things that I enjoy.

585

00:32:30.340 --> 00:32:31.080

And you know,

586

00:32:31.080 --> 00:32:35.720

I wish it for everybody to find the place or to find the environment that makes

587

00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:37.640

you a more enriched person of yourself.

588

00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:40.480

Because I know not everybody's fortunate to get that. I am lucky,

589

00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:43.870

I have good friends, I have good people, and I live in a nice place.

590

00:32:44.950 --> 00:32:49.290

And once you kind of find that, that's a real sense of enough. So,

591

00:32:50.080 --> 00:32:52.900

and, and then the nature of my work as well, I, I see what,

592

00:32:53.450 --> 00:32:56.700

what bad relationships to food and to alcohol and to certain things.

593

00:32:56.740 --> 00:33:00.780

I see what they do to life. And you can only see that so many times before you,

594

00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:03.900

it, you question your own relationship to certain things too, you know,

595

00:33:03.900 --> 00:33:04.940

that kinda way.

596

00:33:05.630 --> 00:33:08.540

[Nolan] Yeah, definitely. Here now pause, since we're talking about,</v>

597

00:33:08.540 --> 00:33:11.180

we talk a little bit about our personal connections and you talk a little bit

598

00:33:11.180 --> 00:33:12.860

about your clients. Um,

599

00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:16.500

and we're talking about how culture influences the,

600

00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:18.980

the nutrition and our own health.

601

00:33:19.210 --> 00:33:21.140

Something that's a little bit more serious than,

602

00:33:21.210 --> 00:33:25.500

than our issues here is when we're looking at like eating disorders and even

603

00:33:25.530 --> 00:33:26.860

that is culturally bound.

604

00:33:26.860 --> 00:33:30.700

So I just wanna read a couple things here and just get your thoughts on it. Uh,

605

00:33:30.700 --> 00:33:31.410

like bu uh,

606

00:33:31.410 --> 00:33:36.300

bulimia is a culture bound syndrome because it's mostly just in the modern

607

00:33:36.540 --> 00:33:39.020

cultures, uh, with Western influence.

608

00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:41.660

And like if we look at the historic literature,

609

00:33:41.660 --> 00:33:43.660

there's little evidence of it existing,

610

00:33:44.360 --> 00:33:48.380

but then anorexia is a lot more complicated.

611

00:33:49.320 --> 00:33:54.020

Um, like they did one study in 1992 and they found no evidence of

612

00:33:54.180 --> 00:33:58.020

anorexia among Pakistani schoolgirls. Um,

613

00:33:58.130 --> 00:34:02.940

they also found fewer instances of anorexia in China compared to the

614

00:34:02.940 --> 00:34:04.420

west. Um,

615

00:34:05.620 --> 00:34:10.400

so it seems like anorexia is less culture bound than

616

00:34:10.990 --> 00:34:14.320

bulimia. What, what, what do you think, what, what,

617

00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:19.210

what are some of the reasons this might be or have you noticed it with clients

618

00:34:19.350 --> 00:34:23.930

at all or have you had to use any of your knowledge to

619

00:34:24.120 --> 00:34:25.930

kind of adapt to this?

620

00:34:27.470 --> 00:34:31.930

[Paul] My big I have a, a theory that I believe on good evidence. I would,</v>

621

00:34:32.490 --> 00:34:35.250

I would even like to look into it further before I really speak on the air.

622

00:34:35.250 --> 00:34:36.010

But I'm happy to,

623

00:34:36.010 --> 00:34:39.530

on the basis that I'm confident what I'm about to say isn't incorrect.

624

00:34:39.750 --> 00:34:43.730

And if somebody does have knowledge who listens and can, you can let me know.

625

00:34:43.790 --> 00:34:48.290

But I, I have worked say on a binge eating course with Dr.

626

00:34:48.290 --> 00:34:52.210

Jake and Arden. So this isn't me just pulling a theory randomly on the air.

627

00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:56.420

It's, I have a strong suspicion that these kind of mechanisms,

628

00:34:57.410 --> 00:34:58.830

individualities aside,

629

00:34:59.330 --> 00:35:04.280

are linked to the rigid diets that one takes up

630

00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:07.160

when they believe that the ideal body images on the other side.

631

00:35:08.290 --> 00:35:09.123

So if you believe,

632

00:35:09.570 --> 00:35:13.990

if you just follow this exact style pattern with no regard,

633

00:35:14.130 --> 00:35:15.510

the toll it takes on your mental,

634

00:35:15.610 --> 00:35:19.690

mental and emotional health because you are going to look like the advertisement

635

00:35:19.690 --> 00:35:23.850

that it promised you that you would look like very possibly unlikely from

636

00:35:23.850 --> 00:35:27.010

someone who advertised that that was taking some kind of medicinal fat burner or

637

00:35:27.010 --> 00:35:30.450

anabolic steroid, you are not going to get that result.

638

00:35:30.990 --> 00:35:34.410

You are going to question why you're going to put the blame solely on yourself.

639

00:35:34.670 --> 00:35:37.480

You're going to attribute a lack of willpower and discipline to yourself.

640

00:35:37.980 --> 00:35:41.680

And then you're going to try and diet yourself up further out of the hole that

641

00:35:41.680 --> 00:35:45.680

you have dieted yourself into. Now I hesitate to say things,

642

00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:47.840

I think eating disorders,

643

00:35:48.030 --> 00:35:52.990

real ones that debilitate lives the pathology there is so, say,

644

00:35:53.860 --> 00:35:54.693

nuanced,

645

00:35:55.560 --> 00:35:59.130

that I feel that that kind of top exact topic should be left to the experts.

646

00:35:59.950 --> 00:36:01.690

And I believe that they, they're somewhere.

647

00:36:02.030 --> 00:36:04.170

And I believe as trainers and coaches, we are in,

648

00:36:04.190 --> 00:36:06.170

in some ways body image coaches not,

649

00:36:06.170 --> 00:36:08.770

not in a sense that I need to be coaching someone to a better body image.

650

00:36:08.850 --> 00:36:12.460

I don't have that ability, but it's my job to look out for the signs.

651

00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:17.260

And if somebody's exhibiting those kind of severe issues,

652

00:36:17.950 --> 00:36:19.980

these binge restrict tendencies,

653

00:36:20.810 --> 00:36:24.060

they are the onset of severe eating disorders.

654

00:36:24.930 --> 00:36:28.670

And I think like roots, they grow when they grow and they grow.

655

00:36:29.420 --> 00:36:33.520

And you mentioned, I think that they, there's no historical evidence long term.

656

00:36:34.620 --> 00:36:36.360

[Nolan] For, for uh, bulimia.</v>

657

00:36:36.550 --> 00:36:40.600

They haven't found much historic literature. Anorexia, yes. Um,

658

00:36:40.840 --> 00:36:44.760

actually among Cath um, sec of Catholics, there were, uh,

659

00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:48.680

Catholic saints and um, then later that,

660

00:36:48.680 --> 00:36:51.080

cause I think I have to go double check think the 12th century,

661

00:36:51.210 --> 00:36:54.800

don't quote me on that. Um, and then later in the 17th,

662

00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:59.560

18th century teenage girls started modeling themselves after those,

663

00:36:59.940 --> 00:37:04.320

uh, those saints, um, I gotta look into the specifics there again, but,

664

00:37:05.260 --> 00:37:08.960

uh, that, that's, that's anorexia but bulimia, they couldn't find anything,

665

00:37:09.300 --> 00:37:13.120

any evidence of that outside of the west, the modern west.

666

00:37:13.780 --> 00:37:17.720

[Paul] You, you'd have to suspect that it is the ideals that have been portrayed.</v>

667

00:37:17.960 --> 00:37:21.040

I know for sure that I've had my own problems with, uh,

668

00:37:21.040 --> 00:37:22.840

certainly bulimia and binge eating in the past.

669

00:37:22.840 --> 00:37:24.560

That's why I'm so passionate about what I do now.

670

00:37:24.560 --> 00:37:28.680

And that's why I'm so obsessed professionally with helping people get a really

671

00:37:28.680 --> 00:37:31.800

good relationship with food. You know, I've been asked so many times,

672

00:37:32.140 --> 00:37:35.840

was my upbringing a part of why I developed severe body image hangups?

673

00:37:36.100 --> 00:37:40.280

And I don't believe it was, I don't, I didn't have an upbringing.

674

00:37:41.220 --> 00:37:43.520

Um, I would, I'd be hesitate to say it was any difficult,

675

00:37:43.620 --> 00:37:45.080

any more difficult than anybody else's.

676

00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:48.800

I genuinely believe it was picking up fitness magazines at 15 years old and

677

00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:52.080

seeing a really jacked guy who was on steroids telling me that eat,

678

00:37:52.140 --> 00:37:53.080

eat big to get big.

679

00:37:53.080 --> 00:37:55.360

And then you do that for three weeks and then the next month is a really

680

00:37:55.360 --> 00:37:57.680

shredded dude and it's, you know, zero carbs for the,

681

00:37:57.680 --> 00:37:59.160

for this amount of fat loss.

682

00:37:59.160 --> 00:38:02.120

And you try that and all of a sudden you don't really know what you're doing,

683

00:38:02.220 --> 00:38:06.480

but you're tired and you're hungry and you're starving and you can't flex your

684

00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:07.620

critical thinking muscle.

685

00:38:07.620 --> 00:38:11.120

You've taken no time to create your personal values and then you just find

686

00:38:11.280 --> 00:38:12.520

yourself exhausted.

687

00:38:12.520 --> 00:38:15.600

Or you eat something that makes you feel guilty and you just think maybe I'm,

688

00:38:16.540 --> 00:38:20.080

I wasn't supposed to eat that. Maybe if I get sick it will help.

689

00:38:20.540 --> 00:38:23.520

And then all of a sudden that becomes a mechanism every single time you eat

690

00:38:23.520 --> 00:38:25.280

something that's quote unquote not on the diet,

691

00:38:26.340 --> 00:38:29.910

that you make yourself sick to justify eating it and it becomes a really

692

00:38:29.910 --> 00:38:32.150

problematic behavior. Or at least that's what happened to me.

693

00:38:32.410 --> 00:38:35.680

And I spent years on and off in that cycle and not many people would've known

694

00:38:35.680 --> 00:38:36.513

that.

695

00:38:36.620 --> 00:38:39.920

And I'm sure because of my personality and the way I present to my friends,

696

00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:42.320

they would've definitely not noticed to do. But it, you can,

697

00:38:42.340 --> 00:38:43.800

you can play face around people.

698

00:38:43.860 --> 00:38:47.140

You can always pretend to be someone you're not or,

699

00:38:47.140 --> 00:38:49.820

or even not exactly pretending to be someone I'm not.

700

00:38:49.820 --> 00:38:52.940

But you can pretend that part of you you're struggling with doesn't exist and

701

00:38:52.940 --> 00:38:54.420

then you go home and you suffer alone.

702

00:38:55.080 --> 00:38:59.460

So I do suspect big time that these images are a massive

703

00:39:00.370 --> 00:39:04.360

part of it. But then I think I heard you and Cesar there talk about kind of, um,

704

00:39:04.600 --> 00:39:07.800

I know you mentioned woke culture on your podcast and I'm not opening a kind of

705

00:39:07.880 --> 00:39:08.200

worms here,

706

00:39:08.200 --> 00:39:11.040

but I think the pendulum has swung a little bit too far in the other direction

707

00:39:11.040 --> 00:39:11.873

where it's [Laughter] .

708

00:39:12.600 --> 00:39:15.880

[Nolan] I am opening that can of worms cause I was actually just gonna ask you about,</v>

709

00:39:16.810 --> 00:39:18.360

about that. Um, Mary,

710

00:39:18.460 --> 00:39:21.600

say what you're gonna say that I [Laughter]  I do have some questions related to to

711

00:39:21.600 --> 00:39:22.480

that I, no.

712

00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:24.760

[Paul] You asked what you've wanna ask cuz I have a feeling we're about to clean up.</v>

713

00:39:24.790 --> 00:39:25.623

Okay.

714

00:39:26.590 --> 00:39:30.800

[Nolan] Okay. Yeah cuz I think the pendulum [Laughter]  swung a little bit too far as well.</v>

715

00:39:31.420 --> 00:39:35.480

Um, with any, before I get into one, one quote I wanted Yeah.

716

00:39:35.780 --> 00:39:36.000

[Paul] No,</v>

717

00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:40.120

about any movement and with any ism there's always going to be a subset of very

718

00:39:40.120 --> 00:39:43.920

loud voices that take the best aspects of any given movement and turn a toxic.

719

00:39:46.290 --> 00:39:50.980

[Nolan] Yeah, definitely, definitely. Here I'm going to read a few things. Um,</v>

720

00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:56.130

one comes from um, uh,

721

00:39:56.130 --> 00:39:59.850

what's her name, uh, Anne Helen Peterson.

722

00:40:00.340 --> 00:40:04.970

She's a writer from culture study on. And there was one line from an article I,

723

00:40:04.970 --> 00:40:08.650

or a couple lines or I thought it was pretty clever then I comment on it,

724

00:40:08.650 --> 00:40:10.970

commented on it. But here, uh,

725

00:40:10.990 --> 00:40:15.930

the evils of drinking your calories became a constant drumbeat of diet

726

00:40:15.930 --> 00:40:20.410

culture around the time because we were told that juice flavored milk and non

727

00:40:20.410 --> 00:40:25.370

diet soda were just ways to pile on empty sugary calories that offered no

728

00:40:25.370 --> 00:40:26.203

redeeming value.

729

00:40:26.830 --> 00:40:31.770

And we can already see the classist racist weirdness emerging because this was

730

00:40:31.880 --> 00:40:36.650

also the heyday of smoothie culture juicing and master cleanses to say nothing

731

00:40:36.870 --> 00:40:40.210

of the legacy of SlimFast Slim, slim SlimFast.

732

00:40:40.550 --> 00:40:44.890

So don't drink your calories unless you're only drinking your calories. Cool.

733

00:40:45.670 --> 00:40:49.210

And [Laughter] I thought that was a pretty interesting segment of it,

734

00:40:49.210 --> 00:40:49.760

but what are,

735

00:40:49.760 --> 00:40:53.970

what she was really talking about there was breaking free from diet culture

736

00:40:54.670 --> 00:40:59.260

and then using fat as a neutral descriptor.

737

00:40:59.880 --> 00:41:03.670

Right? And this is where I think it ties into [Laughter] 

738

00:41:03.670 --> 00:41:07.990

let's say woke culture and uh, kind of swinging it too far.

739

00:41:08.850 --> 00:41:13.070

Um, I think using fat as a neutral descriptor is excellent,

740

00:41:13.570 --> 00:41:18.190

but it's been so natural in many cultures and I think, uh,

741

00:41:18.190 --> 00:41:21.430

especially when I talk to some older generations here in Spain or in South

742

00:41:21.430 --> 00:41:24.870

America, like Gordo, que tal, right?

743

00:41:24.970 --> 00:41:29.630

It was always just like more normal. If I teach my Chinese students,

744

00:41:30.410 --> 00:41:34.160

um, a lot of times it's like they talk about their body size,

745

00:41:34.500 --> 00:41:39.040

the way they talk about, about hair, right? Like, oh,

746

00:41:39.340 --> 00:41:43.800

uh, my mom's fat, uh, my dad's skinny [Laughter] I'm blonde, right? And it's,

747

00:41:43.820 --> 00:41:47.440

it doesn't have this sense of shame, doesn't have the sense of guilt,

748

00:41:47.440 --> 00:41:49.880

doesn't have any of that around it. And I,

749

00:41:50.160 --> 00:41:54.360

I think that is something that we should be trying to promote when we're being

750

00:41:54.390 --> 00:41:59.200

more open to like having, you know, like fat models and things like that.

751

00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:02.600

I think it's great to show like, okay, you can have a healthy,

752

00:42:02.740 --> 00:42:04.560

bigger body, excellent,

753

00:42:04.980 --> 00:42:08.800

but that's not what the magazines are doing at this point anymore, right?

754

00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:13.160

They're showing people that are truly obese on like an

755

00:42:13.230 --> 00:42:14.280

unhealthy level.

756

00:42:14.900 --> 00:42:19.440

And I think they're doing it to counter all the other side of it, but I don't,

757

00:42:19.900 --> 00:42:23.640

it always has to be these extremes. Like all these super jack steroids people,

758

00:42:23.640 --> 00:42:28.560

steroid people and anorexic models and then now very obese models

759

00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:33.720

which are also not, um, like showing a healthy body image.

760

00:42:34.460 --> 00:42:38.500

And I'm not like, I'm sure a lot of people right now listening to this show,

761

00:42:38.500 --> 00:42:41.900

they're probably thinking, you're fat shaming, you're fat shaming. I'm like,

762

00:42:42.700 --> 00:42:45.040

really? Like that's the rhetoric around it now,

763

00:42:45.070 --> 00:42:49.920

just because I'm saying we shouldn't have models that are that huge as an

764

00:42:49.930 --> 00:42:53.680

image of health because it's not. And wait,

765

00:42:53.780 --> 00:42:55.240

I'm growing a little bit on tangent here,

766

00:42:55.260 --> 00:42:59.080

but lets put a finish up before we get your side into it. Um,

767

00:42:59.920 --> 00:43:04.860

I mean if we look at the predisposition of a bigger body that

768

00:43:05.040 --> 00:43:06.060

exists for sure,

769

00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:11.540

but if we look at culture and we can see the amount of like

770

00:43:11.970 --> 00:43:16.660

just extreme obesity that exists in the United States and doesn't exist in other

771

00:43:16.660 --> 00:43:20.340

cultures, you can't say it's a like a genetic thing anymore.

772

00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:22.420

It really is like a health,

773

00:43:22.530 --> 00:43:26.460

it's a choice that you're making in those cases, right. Now,

774

00:43:26.460 --> 00:43:29.620

There might be mental issues and everything around that. Um,

775

00:43:30.460 --> 00:43:32.440

but I think that's where it goes a little bit too far.

776

00:43:32.440 --> 00:43:36.400

Like we shouldn't be saying that it's good to be

777

00:43:37.200 --> 00:43:41.640

incredibly huge. And another thing that ties into this is,

778

00:43:41.640 --> 00:43:42.880

I've heard this line before,

779

00:43:43.460 --> 00:43:48.240

one from a really close friend and I didn't know how to react because I don't

780

00:43:48.240 --> 00:43:53.160

want to fat shame and I, I didn't, I didn't really know the correct wording and,

781

00:43:53.180 --> 00:43:57.640

and maybe you do. Um, but he, he and he is a wonderful guy,

782

00:43:57.640 --> 00:43:59.560

but he mentioned to me, um,

783

00:44:00.420 --> 00:44:04.440

the doctors are telling me that I need to lose weight. Um,

784

00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:06.560

like cuz it's on a dangerous level, right? And the doc,

785

00:44:06.560 --> 00:44:08.760

the doctors are telling me that I need to lose weight.

786

00:44:09.100 --> 00:44:10.840

I'm tired of this fat shaming.

787

00:44:12.710 --> 00:44:17.140

And I thought to myself is, is that really fat shaming?

788

00:44:17.140 --> 00:44:21.260

Like are we really at that point now where a doctor can't tell you to try and

789

00:44:21.460 --> 00:44:26.290

lose weight? But yeah, that's kind of my, my tangent and my rant there.

790

00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:30.370

What what do you think? And feel free to disagree, right? It's,

791

00:44:30.370 --> 00:44:31.920

it's something that I'm, I'm just exploring.

792

00:44:32.180 --> 00:44:34.920

[Paul] No, I think it's great. I think you need to be able to explore your thoughts.</v>

793

00:44:35.300 --> 00:44:36.960

Um, so if I'm, to be perfectly honest,

794

00:44:37.040 --> 00:44:41.650

I tend to stay completely away. Maybe I don't even tend to,

795

00:44:41.710 --> 00:44:45.130

I'm just not interested in the pendulum of extremes that the industry swings

796

00:44:45.130 --> 00:44:45.680

into.

797

00:44:45.680 --> 00:44:49.970

I've seen that kind of debate of like super drugged up steroid people versus

798

00:44:50.080 --> 00:44:53.530

then not the other extreme. But I think that's just typical of human nature.

799

00:44:53.690 --> 00:44:56.930

I think the pendulum swings from extreme to extreme in any given domain.

800

00:44:57.410 --> 00:45:02.100

I just think weight is very emotional and I understand why I actually take a

801

00:45:02.220 --> 00:45:03.053

slightly different stance,

802

00:45:03.230 --> 00:45:06.980

which is ironic because it's kind of the same stance that a lot of the body

803

00:45:07.300 --> 00:45:10.810

positive movement would take when a client wants to lose body weight from,

804

00:45:10.840 --> 00:45:13.170

from my point of view, I ask them, can they separate?

805

00:45:13.430 --> 00:45:17.210

Say I'll use you as an example just if you had a 20 pound weight loss goal,

806

00:45:18.200 --> 00:45:19.780

we need to separate Nolan the person,

807

00:45:19.910 --> 00:45:23.420

Nolan the character from body fat to substrate body fat to tissue.

808

00:45:23.480 --> 00:45:25.180

We need to view it like a mathematical equation.

809

00:45:25.560 --> 00:45:29.180

If we wanna break down 20 pounds of body fat over a period of so many weeks,

810

00:45:29.210 --> 00:45:32.620

we'd like to essentially break down 70,000 stored calories.

811

00:45:33.330 --> 00:45:36.470

If you can take the emotion out of it and see it as a substrate and a

812

00:45:36.510 --> 00:45:40.790

mathematical equation to breakdown, you can become a much calmer,

813

00:45:40.790 --> 00:45:45.350

clearer strategic observer of your own thoughts and you can finally become aware

814

00:45:45.350 --> 00:45:50.200

of that wonderful sprinkle of human psychology. We all place over our own goals,

815

00:45:50.250 --> 00:45:54.190

right? And honestly, I don't think about it any deeper than that. Uh,

816

00:45:54.430 --> 00:45:59.430

I think the body positivity movement, when I started my Instagram page in 2015,

817

00:45:59.630 --> 00:46:02.910

I really genuinely thought I was about to stare some kind of body positivity

818

00:46:03.430 --> 00:46:04.263

movement. I really did.

819

00:46:04.550 --> 00:46:07.790

I had just come out of kind of men's physique body building and it wasn't a life

820

00:46:07.810 --> 00:46:11.110

for me. And then I kind of went on Instagram and I thought, whoa, hang on.

821

00:46:11.110 --> 00:46:14.110

These guys are saying that all dieting is bad. And you know,

822

00:46:14.370 --> 00:46:17.830

the accumulation of fat tissue is harmless and that's not true either.

823

00:46:18.010 --> 00:46:19.470

So if we're going to have the conversation,

824

00:46:19.470 --> 00:46:20.790

it needs to be centered around truth.

825

00:46:21.050 --> 00:46:23.590

And unfortunately extremists don't love truth.

826

00:46:23.940 --> 00:46:27.830

They explain of a traumatized worldview is a very black and white

827

00:46:28.420 --> 00:46:29.950

worldview in, in in a sense.

828

00:46:30.410 --> 00:46:34.750

And it's just the same absence of critical thinking on the other side of the

829

00:46:34.830 --> 00:46:38.190

spectrum to be completely bound by diet culture and then to be completely anti-d

830

00:46:38.190 --> 00:46:42.210

diet values come into it. Values are the main thing. So you,

831

00:46:42.650 --> 00:46:46.450

I don't currently wish to diet, but that doesn't mean I think dieting is bad.

832

00:46:47.190 --> 00:46:51.340

Um, so that's kind of the initial point that I wanted to make. I can't,

833

00:46:51.540 --> 00:46:53.220

I can't even, I've lost my train of thought for the second.

834

00:46:53.560 --> 00:46:56.540

You had two points there. One was the body positivity movement,

835

00:46:56.600 --> 00:46:57.433

the second one was.

836

00:46:57.560 --> 00:47:00.020

[Nolan] The body positivity. Um, I brought up a lot there.</v>

837

00:47:00.040 --> 00:47:02.660

And then I was also wondering about your thoughts,

838

00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:07.620

how to approach a friend or a client that says something

839

00:47:07.620 --> 00:47:11.860

like, says something like, oh the doctors are fat shaming me. Right?

840

00:47:11.960 --> 00:47:14.540

And it's like, you're, you, you are worried about them cuz you,

841

00:47:14.540 --> 00:47:18.780

you want the best for their health. How, how would you approach that? I.

842

00:47:18.780 --> 00:47:23.460

[Paul] Think it's probably difficult for a lot of people who have spent a lot of their</v>

843

00:47:23.460 --> 00:47:28.300

life feeling or being judged for a characteristic that they

844

00:47:28.300 --> 00:47:30.440

don't wish to be judged for. Um,

845

00:47:31.160 --> 00:47:35.320

I think there's always an element of whatever element of personal responsibility

846

00:47:35.530 --> 00:47:37.200

comes into any kind of decision making.

847

00:47:39.190 --> 00:47:43.890

I think tact is the biggest thing to involve in

848

00:47:43.890 --> 00:47:48.290

helping anybody change. And I actually don't believe in unsolicited advice.

849

00:47:48.610 --> 00:47:52.770

I think some doctors lack tact. So they'll say things in a very unskillful way,

850

00:47:52.830 --> 00:47:56.250

in a way that basically reenact the same stigma that somebody's always been met

851

00:47:56.250 --> 00:48:00.950

with. But I suppose I say this as a trainer who has, I I've,

852

00:48:01.070 --> 00:48:04.990

I have had a fully booked up client roster say since 2020 online.

853

00:48:04.990 --> 00:48:06.070

Before that I was in person.

854

00:48:06.130 --> 00:48:10.150

So since 2018 I have not not had a full client roster.

855

00:48:10.580 --> 00:48:12.670

Many of those would struggle. I call it this way.

856

00:48:12.670 --> 00:48:13.870

And I'm not trying to be overly pc,

857

00:48:13.970 --> 00:48:17.390

but they struggle with adiposity cause I do separate the person from the tissue.

858

00:48:17.450 --> 00:48:21.590

Cuz I think it makes people more clearer. And I think in the first world,

859

00:48:22.350 --> 00:48:26.110

a lot of our eating habits, it would be easy to dismiss as first world issues.

860

00:48:26.110 --> 00:48:30.310

But I think they're also a symptom of emotional malnutrition and a lot of the

861

00:48:30.310 --> 00:48:34.080

lives that we've been, I guess coaxed into.

862

00:48:34.670 --> 00:48:37.010

And then we realized that this wasn't the life we actually wanted.

863

00:48:37.230 --> 00:48:39.210

And then food is probably the only comfort and joy.

864

00:48:39.260 --> 00:48:43.140

Maybe there's a lot of rigid thinking that comes with it.

865

00:48:43.140 --> 00:48:46.020

And then there's obviously a lot of people that do try diets that don't actually

866

00:48:46.020 --> 00:48:49.540

make them a philosophically better person. Ultimately,

867

00:48:50.380 --> 00:48:52.320

if you want to lead someone to change,

868

00:48:52.460 --> 00:48:55.680

not making them feel like a bag of garbage is probably the first step.

869

00:48:56.720 --> 00:49:00.960

I would also say if you're not a doctor, why? Why does it bother you so much?

870

00:49:01.790 --> 00:49:05.250

I would also say that even if it does bother you,

871

00:49:05.470 --> 00:49:07.490

cuz you're concerned with someone's habits,

872

00:49:08.210 --> 00:49:10.930

I still think they're a better way to bring someone's attention to certain

873

00:49:10.930 --> 00:49:14.130

things that they're doing without shaming them on the outcome that it's bringing

874

00:49:14.130 --> 00:49:17.050

about. Like, Hey, I've noticed you're less active or Hey I've,

875

00:49:17.050 --> 00:49:19.530

I've noticed that you're not going for your walks anymore or you,

876

00:49:19.530 --> 00:49:22.330

you don't seem yourself not even something to you don't seem yourself lately,

877

00:49:22.330 --> 00:49:26.090

is everything okay? But I'll always kind of go back to it.

878

00:49:26.090 --> 00:49:30.330

You need to make people feel safe to express themselves or I don't think they

879

00:49:30.330 --> 00:49:32.090

will do it. I don't think anyone ever wants advice.

880

00:49:32.560 --> 00:49:35.210

People don't change when they're told they need to change.

881

00:49:35.210 --> 00:49:40.190

People change when they undertake voluntarily a strategy that they

882

00:49:40.190 --> 00:49:42.550

deep down suspected they know they need to take.

883

00:49:42.850 --> 00:49:45.790

And then they might find assistance from somebody who they feel they trust.

884

00:49:46.310 --> 00:49:50.190

I have a lady who I'm currently working with in her message to me,

885

00:49:50.330 --> 00:49:52.870

she said the words and she's okay with me sharing this.

886

00:49:52.870 --> 00:49:55.310

She's actually told me this. I'm eating myself to death.

887

00:49:56.220 --> 00:50:00.470

And when she told me on the call her eating habits, I said,

888

00:50:00.570 --> 00:50:01.670

why are you sharing this with me?

889

00:50:01.830 --> 00:50:05.830

A lot of people are not quite as forthright as you because

890

00:50:06.590 --> 00:50:08.920

there's an element of shyness. And she just said,

891

00:50:09.080 --> 00:50:10.680

I just don't get the impression you're judging me.

892

00:50:10.840 --> 00:50:12.360

I get the impression you're solely here to help.

893

00:50:12.530 --> 00:50:14.600

Which is a very kind and gratifying thing to hear.

894

00:50:14.980 --> 00:50:17.440

And it's not that I don't get, it's not that like as a human,

895

00:50:17.540 --> 00:50:20.960

I'm not compelled to judge. Of course I feel compelled to judge things.

896

00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:25.120

That's that's mechanism in my brain. But then immediately within milliseconds,

897

00:50:25.120 --> 00:50:27.600

I can catch myself and think if I went to someone,

898

00:50:28.010 --> 00:50:30.320

let's say a therapist or someone, and I said, look,

899

00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:34.620

this is an issue that I'm having. And they said, really get over that,

900

00:50:35.240 --> 00:50:38.520

that's laziness. Or I'd be, I,

901

00:50:38.600 --> 00:50:42.440

I don't know how thrilled I'd be about that. And, um, I,

902

00:50:42.560 --> 00:50:45.480

I don't think it's my job to be anyone's therapist or psychologist. I,

903

00:50:45.620 --> 00:50:46.680

I'm not saying that at all.

904

00:50:46.820 --> 00:50:50.880

But I consider the dynamic of a client and trainer to have the same respect that

905

00:50:50.920 --> 00:50:54.200

a therapist and a client would have so that they can tell me anything.

906

00:50:54.260 --> 00:50:58.970

And I can either say, I can help you here without my judgment, mudding

907

00:50:59.030 --> 00:50:59.550

the water,

908

00:50:59.550 --> 00:51:02.530

or I can refer you out to somebody else because this is actually much more of a

909

00:51:02.530 --> 00:51:06.050

mental health issue than it is a perspective a trainer can help with issue.

910

00:51:06.510 --> 00:51:09.650

So I, I think if more trainers and more people take that stance in society,

911

00:51:09.700 --> 00:51:13.010

we'll have a lot more people who are, feel emotionally safe to be vulnerable.

912

00:51:13.010 --> 00:51:16.810

Cause I think vulnerability is true courage and true strength and

913

00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:20.490

yeah, that's just, that's what I've found as a trainer.

914

00:51:21.590 --> 00:51:25.060

[Nolan] Definitely. Yeah. I, I agree with that. And well,</v>

915

00:51:25.060 --> 00:51:27.620

I think a lot of people listening to right now are probably, they're like,

916

00:51:27.810 --> 00:51:31.740

shit, I want Paul as a trainer, [Laughter] . Um, so just, just on the show,

917

00:51:31.740 --> 00:51:34.660

can you just give a li uh, a little bit of, um,

918

00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:37.380

an idea of how the sessions work online,

919

00:51:37.380 --> 00:51:41.180

because I think some people who haven't had training online might think like,

920

00:51:41.180 --> 00:51:42.620

how does that work? How can a,

921

00:51:42.760 --> 00:51:46.620

how can someone help me with my movements when they're from such a, a distance?

922

00:51:47.450 --> 00:51:47.570

[Paul] I

923

00:51:47.570 --> 00:51:50.530

get that question all the time. So the first thing is, I actually do still,</v>

924

00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:53.970

only if you're in Spain, one-on-one personal training, like your classic,

925

00:51:54.430 --> 00:51:57.890

do some bicep curls. I still do that. I have two clients here in Malaga. But,

926

00:51:57.910 --> 00:52:02.290

um, overall, it's, it's, it's pretty, it's always, I'm all, pardon,

927

00:52:02.910 --> 00:52:06.090

let me not stumble over my own words. I'm always refining the service.

928

00:52:06.270 --> 00:52:06.810

So right now,

929

00:52:06.810 --> 00:52:11.580

essentially what I do is I ask people what they're struggling with and

930

00:52:11.580 --> 00:52:14.860

where they're trying to go. And we have a, an initial detailed call.

931

00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:16.780

And then generally speaking,

932

00:52:16.780 --> 00:52:20.020

we set some guidelines and the guidelines are to sustain them.

933

00:52:20.260 --> 00:52:23.860

And then we do a check-in call once a week every week,

934

00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:26.980

or as many weeks as they need. That's kind of my new service. It,

935

00:52:27.090 --> 00:52:29.180

it's always being refined. You used to be email check-in,

936

00:52:29.180 --> 00:52:30.580

then for a while it was WhatsApp voice note,

937

00:52:30.580 --> 00:52:33.540

and now it's kind of the video chats for those who acquire it,

938

00:52:33.540 --> 00:52:35.100

depending on when clients signed up.

939

00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:39.580

But a lot of my business goals,

940

00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:43.660

my personal training goals are centered around creating autonomy in the client.

941

00:52:44.340 --> 00:52:46.700

I don't want an eight week transformation.

942

00:52:47.020 --> 00:52:50.980

I don't want mini balls running around eating watermelon for breakfast.

943

00:52:51.040 --> 00:52:52.020

That's not my goal.

944

00:52:52.420 --> 00:52:54.540

I want people to feel autonomous to make their own decisions.

945

00:52:54.620 --> 00:52:56.340

I had a lady in Australia a few years ago,

946

00:52:56.600 --> 00:52:59.220

she told me that she'd been trying to lose 70 pounds for years.

947

00:52:59.680 --> 00:53:03.540

And it was that classic case of whilst the goal and the food preoccupation had

948

00:53:03.540 --> 00:53:07.220

been on her mind, like she hadn't actually been engaged with the goal,

949

00:53:07.280 --> 00:53:10.860

she would give up on a Tuesday and start the diet again next Monday. But,

950

00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:13.900

but she got all the food preoccupation. So if I came along and say,

951

00:53:13.900 --> 00:53:18.450

shamed her and thought, oh, you're not trying a, I, I, I don't believe that. I,

952

00:53:18.490 --> 00:53:20.850

I I really don't because I know what it's like to be in a black and white

953

00:53:20.850 --> 00:53:23.930

thought process. But unfortunately the truth is, b you,

954

00:53:24.030 --> 00:53:25.600

you are not dieting for fat loss.

955

00:53:25.600 --> 00:53:27.440

You're actually doing the opposite. By giving up,

956

00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:30.560

you're consuming far more calories than your body needs because you think you

957

00:53:30.560 --> 00:53:33.160

have failed. But I remember she, she lost about 20,

958

00:53:33.160 --> 00:53:36.040

30 pounds and she came back after a couple of months and she said,

959

00:53:36.040 --> 00:53:38.600

I hope you're not disappointed in me, but I don't want to lose 70 pounds.

960

00:53:38.880 --> 00:53:41.080

I spent my entire adult life thinking I wanted to lose 70.

961

00:53:41.460 --> 00:53:44.640

And if I've learned one thing from you, it's, I'm actually good now.

962

00:53:45.020 --> 00:53:48.640

If I can maintain my lifestyle whilst maintaining this current weight,

963

00:53:48.660 --> 00:53:51.880

that's a success for me. And I hope you're not disappointed. And I,

964

00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:56.300

I remember having a less succinctly strong feeling of this is amazing.

965

00:53:56.690 --> 00:53:59.740

This is amazing that you can actually tap into that wisdom and realize that the

966

00:53:59.740 --> 00:54:00.573

goal has changed.

967

00:54:00.920 --> 00:54:04.140

So I'm just trying to lead people to a better understanding of themselves,

968

00:54:04.640 --> 00:54:07.420

but through their own work, I'm kind of trying to facilitate change.

969

00:54:07.940 --> 00:54:11.020

I can't take responsibility for any positive change because it's always on them.

970

00:54:12.040 --> 00:54:14.860

Um, I can't pull wisdom out of people that isn't in there.

971

00:54:15.060 --> 00:54:18.220

I might be able to shine some kind of light on it or maybe probe with an

972

00:54:18.420 --> 00:54:22.700

interesting question perhaps, but that's how it works. I,

973

00:54:22.700 --> 00:54:25.060

it's a monthly service, monthly payments,

974

00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:28.460

and then generally weekly or biweekly calls depending.

975

00:54:28.820 --> 00:54:31.580

I also offer once off calls, like just once off deep dive calls,

976

00:54:31.580 --> 00:54:34.140

which some clients take me up on when they don't want to commit to full-time

977

00:54:34.380 --> 00:54:37.340

coaching. And, um, yeah, I'm just, I I love it, man.

978

00:54:37.380 --> 00:54:39.980

I just love helping people become more strategic,

979

00:54:40.210 --> 00:54:42.580

more observant of their own thought patterns.

980

00:54:43.220 --> 00:54:46.180

I love the idea of helping people become a little bit more calm.

981

00:54:46.700 --> 00:54:51.220

I also really enjoy reminding people that like the insecurities that you're

982

00:54:51.220 --> 00:54:53.220

feeling, they don't make you defective. They make you alive.

983

00:54:53.760 --> 00:54:56.660

So if you think you're going to diet your way from insecurity,

984

00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:01.700

the deficit of calories won't diet you out of that deficit of love.

985

00:55:01.800 --> 00:55:05.100

So just keep that in mind too. I mean, that doesn't always land,

986

00:55:05.160 --> 00:55:08.060

but sometimes it can be reassuring for people to know that they're not some kind

987

00:55:08.060 --> 00:55:12.060

of freak because they don't just love their body and find nutrition easy. So it,

988

00:55:12.060 --> 00:55:13.980

it's complicated, man. But that's, again,

989

00:55:13.980 --> 00:55:16.700

it's the kind of thing I could talk about all day long and feel like I've said

990

00:55:16.940 --> 00:55:19.100

nothing in a way, but I love it.

991

00:55:19.260 --> 00:55:23.620

[Nolan] I can tell I [Laughter]  Paul. Well, we're coming up on an hour here.</v>

992

00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:27.820

Um, so I think all, all that advice, all your words of wisdom,

993

00:55:27.820 --> 00:55:32.060

there were just so many lines in there that I want to expand on, but we just,

994

00:55:32.060 --> 00:55:34.340

as you said, we just don't have time for it, but it's,

995

00:55:34.600 --> 00:55:39.340

you just have so many of these one-liners that have so much insight into them

996

00:55:39.340 --> 00:55:43.580

that even just unpacking them could take another episode. Um,

997

00:55:44.570 --> 00:55:46.180

yeah, here we are. Paul is, yeah.

998

00:55:46.580 --> 00:55:50.940

[Paul] I really, I really appreciate that man. And it's very kind of you to say that I,</v>

999

00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:53.550

the balls, one of the things that has helped me,

1000

00:55:53.550 --> 00:55:57.870

just in case it does help anybody else, is I've held opinions in the past.

1001

00:55:58.460 --> 00:56:00.270

When I was younger, I was a sarcastic trainer,

1002

00:56:00.850 --> 00:56:05.350

as in my content was quite sarcastic and all of it because

1003

00:56:05.650 --> 00:56:07.830

my girlfriend jokes, you know, that that's just who I am.

1004

00:56:07.850 --> 00:56:11.150

And I've tried to put more flavors of my personality on Instagram really

1005

00:56:11.390 --> 00:56:12.050

recently.

1006

00:56:12.050 --> 00:56:16.470

But misplaced and wayward sarcasm can look a lot like a lack of compassion.

1007

00:56:16.890 --> 00:56:21.510

So I think not being afraid to upgrade your thought process and

1008

00:56:21.510 --> 00:56:25.880

upgrade your belief system in pursuit of more wisdom is a really important

1009

00:56:25.880 --> 00:56:27.960

thing. So I've been wrong about so many things in the past.

1010

00:56:27.960 --> 00:56:31.320

I've definitely used inflammatory language that I'm now not proud of. Uh,

1011

00:56:31.320 --> 00:56:33.760

one of my clients actually made me aware of something I said once.

1012

00:56:33.900 --> 00:56:37.640

And whilst I didn't agree with her initially, I did have to think, well,

1013

00:56:37.640 --> 00:56:40.980

she's my demographic of clients. Like if, uh,

1014

00:56:41.040 --> 00:56:43.980

if I felt really strongly about this, I'd stay firm, but she,

1015

00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:45.100

she might have a point here.

1016

00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:48.180

And so I listen to her and I'll always be willing to upgrade my stance if

1017

00:56:48.180 --> 00:56:51.340

someone can provide me with a useful insight. But also one other thing, man,

1018

00:56:51.510 --> 00:56:53.300

sorry, I could, one other thing.

1019

00:56:54.220 --> 00:56:57.980

I used language before on a particular post and my sister, who I loved to bits,

1020

00:56:58.000 --> 00:56:58.690

one of my best friends,

1021

00:56:58.690 --> 00:57:03.670

told me that I should change the wording and I did against my better judgment.

1022

00:57:03.730 --> 00:57:05.150

And then I got called out on the post.

1023

00:57:05.610 --> 00:57:08.870

So I remember getting called out thinking I'm getting called out on something

1024

00:57:08.870 --> 00:57:11.390

that I don't fully mean. This is a watered down version of me.

1025

00:57:11.790 --> 00:57:14.350

I should have stayed true. At least when you get challenged on something,

1026

00:57:14.350 --> 00:57:18.790

you truly believe it's a little bit easier. Um, and, and I guess what,

1027

00:57:19.030 --> 00:57:20.230

I'm going back it all tied back.

1028

00:57:20.230 --> 00:57:22.990

If you continue to have a growth mindset and you're willing to

1029

00:57:24.740 --> 00:57:28.200

evolve your perspective in line with new information, um,

1030

00:57:28.520 --> 00:57:31.800

I think if I was walking around in a body that had a hundred pounds of adiposity on

1031

00:57:31.800 --> 00:57:33.560

top of me, I'd probably see it very different too.

1032

00:57:33.820 --> 00:57:36.560

I'd probably relate to it a very different way and I'd probably relate to

1033

00:57:36.720 --> 00:57:40.520

personal trainers a very different way. And one client told me that I wasn't,

1034

00:57:40.520 --> 00:57:45.280

this jumped up motivational speech testicle with a protein shake

1035

00:57:45.630 --> 00:57:47.600

that he feared me to be when he came to the gym,

1036

00:57:47.600 --> 00:57:50.880

that I was just a normal great jumper with a, with a bottle of Diet Coke.

1037

00:57:51.180 --> 00:57:54.080

And that was such a cool feeling to hear that man. I remember thinking, Ooh,

1038

00:57:54.240 --> 00:57:57.480

I wanted something. And I think these are my demographic of people. So,

1039

00:57:57.660 --> 00:57:58.800

you know, there's an element of,

1040

00:57:58.800 --> 00:58:01.200

there's an element of like presenters you wish to be seen,

1041

00:58:01.500 --> 00:58:05.240

but there's also an element of cop the hell on and be a nice person to people as

1042

00:58:05.240 --> 00:58:08.320

well. Make everybody feel welcome, be, be the reason people stay in fitness,

1043

00:58:08.420 --> 00:58:09.480

be the reason people continue,

1044

00:58:09.540 --> 00:58:12.000

be the reason someone fosters a good relationship to their eating.

1045

00:58:12.270 --> 00:58:16.080

Like there was dudes down at the workout park the other day doing muscle ups and

1046

00:58:16.080 --> 00:58:18.760

you know, even I look at them and I'm like half intimidated by them.

1047

00:58:18.780 --> 00:58:21.240

And then there's a dude on the other side of the park struggling to get his

1048

00:58:21.240 --> 00:58:22.960

first chin up and they go over and help him.

1049

00:58:23.180 --> 00:58:25.960

And I wish everybody finds that kind of thing,

1050

00:58:25.990 --> 00:58:29.120

that instead of feeling ashamed of what they can do or what they can't do,

1051

00:58:29.510 --> 00:58:34.410

that the most jacked girl or guy at the gym comes over and is like, come on,

1052

00:58:34.530 --> 00:58:35.770

you get your first rep. You know,

1053

00:58:35.770 --> 00:58:38.370

it's a nice feeling to have and I think we all have the power to be that for

1054

00:58:38.530 --> 00:58:39.363

somebody else.

1055

00:58:39.960 --> 00:58:44.350

[Nolan] Definitely. Paul, thank you for all that advice and I hope the listeners take,</v>

1056

00:58:44.490 --> 00:58:48.470

uh, think about it seriously. Um, everything that Paul said today,

1057

00:58:48.470 --> 00:58:51.750

whether it was about fitness, travel, you can see that it all connects.

1058

00:58:51.910 --> 00:58:54.990

I think this holistic approach to life is very important,

1059

00:58:55.320 --> 00:58:58.470

especially with my goal here at Without Borders.

1060

00:58:58.810 --> 00:59:01.950

My goal is always to break down the borders between peoples,

1061

00:59:01.950 --> 00:59:04.710

between cultures so that we can help each other.

1062

00:59:04.930 --> 00:59:08.510

And I think Paul shed a lot of wisdom on that today. So Paul,

1063

00:59:08.510 --> 00:59:11.390

thanks again for coming on the show. And listeners,

1064

00:59:11.770 --> 00:59:14.270

please support the show by sharing,

1065

00:59:14.680 --> 00:59:19.510

check out my Substack that's bornwithoutborders.substack.com.

1066

00:59:19.850 --> 00:59:23.750

You can also find my writing there. And there's a new episode every Tuesday.